My msg to token MILKERS

in #vyb10 months ago

As most have probably already heard, I'm trying to make most of my curations manually. To bring organic rewards as much as I can.

99% of my curations are done with my LEO, POB and VYB stake, all on a separate, specialized ALT accounts. (onealfa.leo, onealfa.pob, onealfa.vyb)
I also got about 288K Hive HP on my main acct, which is not always delegated, sometimes it is active "at home"

What turns me on very mad, is when I see tag-spammers, or token milkers, which think they can easily milk VYB and POB tokens too, just like they do with other tokens.
When I see something like this:

token_spam.jpg

The least problem is with #LEO. Make "off topic" posts with #leo, and very soon you get a warning msg, or a warning DV.
If this does now work - a permanent MUTE on LEOFINANCE tribe will hit you before too long.

#POB? I think this is a dying token, and I don't even want to comment much extra on it.

#VYB? This is clearly the most "problematic" token.
Why? Because DV is not possible there, so the only noticeable influence I can do to the abusers is by accumulating significant VYB stake, and then ... IGNORE.

There is nothing wrong in using multiple general tags. At least by a formal rules.
But I call it (like example above) nothing else but TOKEN MILKING.
Please don't expect me in helping you to do this.

I will do my best that my upvote with my VYB/POB/LEO stake never ever lands down on a post like in the above example.
More so, it is very much possible that such authors (milkers) will join my permanent MUTE lists.
This is the least I can do for such milkers.

But I want to go one step further.
I want other VYB big stakeholders to join me.
I will regularly monitor such TAG-spamers, and look closely who exactly have upvoted them (in case of high VYB/POB rewards)

I am calling everybody on a VYB TOP20 rich list to refuse upvoting such milkers.

vybtop20.jpg

Sure you can ignore this my personal call.
Don't be surprised then, if the same thing (i.e. ignore) will be applied to your posts/comments from my side.

I hope you got the message.

@onealfa

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I think, no one likes vote milkers, I also think, this was one of the reasons for the decision to move from the old chain to HIVE by the community.

I have a question though, just for clarification, as per my understanding, if a writer has used the brain and has been putting well deserved efforts in writing the post then he/she can use POB tag in the post whatever category he/she is covering... Is my understanding correct?

Of course, this question doesn't involve the writers (milkers) who use all of the tags whether their posts belong to the niche of the tribe or not.

if a writer has used the brain and has been putting well deserved efforts in writing the post then he/she can use POB tag in the post whatever category he/she is covering... Is my understanding correct?

The POB tag is general purpose. So, yes, you are correct in that you can use it in whatever category you wish. I believe onealfa's post refers to his belief that those communities with a redline should not be curated along with POB or VYB in particular.

I believe onealfa's post refers to his belief that those communities with a redline should not be curated along with POB or VYB in particular.

Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I will echo the same sentiment: a few loosely relevant token tags should be seen as acceptable on posts that show thoughtful effort.

My question is can the proofofbrain and vyb tag be used in any post but shouldn't be applied to multiple tags which I believe it's quite unfair too

POB-VYB can be used in any article-type. However, we should ignore those articles clearly participating in tag abuse. Onealfa's example is a clear indication of such an act. We should act to ignore such attempts.

Of course, people are more than allowed to cross post their work in multiple categories using the peakD interface.

We should definitely take some action against tag abuse especially where POB/VYB tags are concerned. I'm wondering where we should draw the line. I think if they're used in the classic 10-tag limit that would be okay? I'll have to add this topic to the moderation policy. I've completed an update to it that's under review at this time. The review should be done this weekend.

Good one from you boss and i sincerely hope others too see reasons to come and form alliance with you in putting an end to some of the users who still find it easier to abuse the privilege they have here.

Ok, I understand completely... I only have specific tags for specific tribes I belong to and do not use tribe tags that got nothing to do with me.

That's pretty much his point, I think. It's a bit ridiculous to add so many tags trying to profit from every community. Hive doesn't like that behavior. It's why peakD created the cross-post feature. You can still reach out to more than 10 communities for one article, you just can't profit from all of them as it will be considered spam, I think.

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I think I don't vote for vote milker even though I have little stakes in these token

I agree with you as this kind of thing turns my stomach and I ignore them. Have a core few and that is it as how can you justify so many tags. The tag use was to highlight your post to a broader community and not about trying to make all these extras.

hey @onealfa what kind of content does the vybrainium community support it's my first time hearing about it

VYB supports most content. There will be a couple of tags excluded like with POB and Leo, but that's about it. I'll work on getting you a list of those excluded, or soon to be excluded, tags.

gotcha thanks

#POB? I think this is a dying token, and I don't even want to comment much extra on it.

Why do you think that?

In regards to this issue, it's interesting one can use that many tags. I'm curious what interface that guy used. On leofinance you have ten tags max, or something like that. Some are not even worth milking... The ones having an interface, an active community and the wheels spinning are the ones that pay the best in my case. I use neoxian and palnet quite often, but been doing that for months and the revenues are irrelevant. I guess I should make my own tags and spam the hell out of you guys with them. You really gave me a good idea with this post... Thanks.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Hive, Leo, StemGeeks, POB, and VYB have restrictions up to 10 tags.

I'm curious what interface that guy used.

You can get that info here.

Go to "properties (23)" then look at the json_metadata:

  • "appType":"Android","actiCrVal":"c6fafd14756fe9d51db7198909db5857d3c356ba0981126209ce683d3d54c3574e357490174436f42f9f378b818dbbb1b2d0fbc70dfb6b4bb0f772780b196239","app":"actifit/0.6.8.3"

They are using an actifit front-end on an Android device. This is perhaps one of the many reasons so many Layer 2 tokens explicitly exclude actifit.

Actifit will be excluded from VYB as soon as the Hive-Engine 'comments' smart-contract revisions go live and allow that.

I bought some vyb so am i allowed to use the tag ? Is the tag for special subjects ?
Thank you to help me understand

You're allowed to use the VYB tag whether you have VYB or not.

Honestly i never know which tags to use , there are a lot of things in which i am clueless in hive , tags included .
But it does not matter because i dont get any anyway

Well, I'm here to tell you that it's okay to use the VYB tag.

If, for some odd reason, it isn't okay. We will let you know, personally. Tag me on it if you're not sure.

Thank you so much for your help

Is the tag for special subjects ?

It is a general purpose tag.

Seems like a lot of them out there I'vefound some myself.

LOL... that is a lot of tags.

I know right thought hive only allowed maximum of eight and eight tags related to the contents. By sharing proper informations

He almost deserves a prize for thinking of that many tokens to milk. I couldn't come up with 1/4 of that list.

I agree with you on most aspects, those that abuse tags should be penalised, but if a tag is relevant to the material in an actual post, I will upvote it, but in saying that, I now only upvote original content produced through the following front ends, in either #POB, #VYB and #CINE, I find a lot of #leo posts are circle jerked by the whales in leo fininace and their discord group, who dictate who can and cannot earn leo rewards. If only I had your status?????

Which IMHO is at the detriment of the platform as many prolific and creative content creators are discouraged from posting using that front end, it was in fact one of the first I used, but I quickly moved away because of snide and degretory comments even after cosistant engagement.

I no longer upvote any posts from this front end and prefer to to bloster the communities that have welcomed and surported my content.

With that being said I fully unstand your reasoning and we should move forward promoting the communities that are most relevant and do not milk the rewards that we have worked hard to earn.

Curation is still King and we should all pay attension to the conetent we curate, I Know I do.

Could we expand on that image of the top 20, it only currently displays the top 10

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Before you voted for my raffles and you stopped doing it from one day to the next? maybe you think that helping hive newcomers is a spammer act

For a while now I've always started to look at the tags used by writers, and I agree, there are token milkers authors, I believe I should never have voted for this type of user. I could be wrong, but not as far as I can remember.

And in fact the POB is dying little by little, with no prospects.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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milking :D

I agree with you. I think it's something that needs to be handled carefully. Because some spam happens from users no matter what.

Because it's not that clear what spam is. Is spam something really stupid ( fuck then 100% of my post are spam :P) or something really useless?

A good parameter is IMO user engagement for that and off course topic relevance.

I would love to see ( for SEO reasons too) tags become tags again and front ends find another way to include content.

Maybe a tag list: finance, crypto, stocks, real estate, and whatever is finance related = leo and so on.

this would also allow better content distribution to users and show real related content. Lower bounce rate, longer time spend on site = higher rankings = higher revenue from ads ( in most cases).

Maybe a simple #frontend inside or under the content can be something for now.

I mean there are open source released tag connections (that maybe need human review) to include in front ends.

A standard for hive and tribes would be amazing for that.

I would really love to see some natural hashtags again. So it would be easier to find content we are interested in.

Although I use a few general tags at once, I don't consider myself a token milker. I see a screenshot above in your post showing more than 25 tags I believe, which is beyond my belief that someone could even think of 25 tags that suit the post. Neither did I know this was possible, which is fine as I already have the biggest issue filling up my 10 allowed tags quite often.

It's more due to that reason that I used VYB as well as proofofbrain and neoxian for example. When I read (yesterday I think it was) that they want don't allow both pob and vyb at once anymore, I excluded POB in my last post. I will probably make the mistake again to add them both out of routine though.

I always think it's good to have a few tribe tags as plenty of my content suits more than one tribe. Why shouldn't I be visible there? I do see that the screenshot you used as an example is probably milking tokens because IMO there's no way these tags can all relate to one topic. Just my two cents!

Just to clarify. VYB was created to complement POB. It's fine to use both together.

Thanks for clarifying, then I may have to re-read that vyb post once again, where I truly thought I read that it will be coded to exclude vyb rewards when using pob? I'm honestly not in the clearest mindset as I'm feeling under the weather, so it may be my reading ability currently :)

If you want to self-vote and use the #pob (or #proofofbrain) tag, then you should include the #no-vyb tag (to exclude VYB rewards when self-voting with POB, because VYB will not allow self-voting).

I never self-vote. I do follow a few trails but the last time I checked my stats I saw 0% self-vote so I guess it's not really happening much. Thanks for explaining!

maybe not in all cases but sometimes people use multi tags because they have no idea there is any netiquette.
I would use both #vyb and #proofofbrain in a generic post.
would probably add some more as it is frustrating that nobody comments, even if I try to write the best content I can in my limited time.

If I break some rules I am not aware of, I would be more than happy to be informed about it in the comments first. If I do it again, then I think people should be ignored / muted.

Best regards!

😎

Hello, @onealfa.
Throughout Proof of Brain's existence, you have been the project's most active investor, its unwavering adherent, and an optimist. Most of your posts were about your personal outstanding achievements in the community. Now you are calling ROB a dying token, and withdrawing your funds from it by actively buying up VYB.

What exactly made you change your attitude towards the project so drastically? Was it the abuse of the tags...? (or is it the silence of proofofbranio, the low market price of POB or other?)

Or maybe it's the emergence of the Verify Your Brain project, and the VYB token, in whose investment appeal you believed more than in POB, despite the fact that it is intended to increase the value of Proof of Brain itself?

You are now actively investing in VYB, becoming number 1, but at the same time calling it the most problematic token. Does that mean you can withdraw your support for it at any time? Or does it mean that you are willing to do whatever it takes to strengthen it?

You are an "opinion leader" here, you play a significant role in the community and many members respect you, trust you and listen to your opinion, so I think your position is of interest to many...

i warned you guys about whale dominance. See what happens...that's why bbd coin and btcmyk will win in the end because the system is automated in the voting and specifically to the content and not based on these whales who can tank a project just like that. maybe when you all get tired of this and wake up you'll look to solve the problem by using projects like bbd coin and btcmyk..until then this chain never will grow. nobody will want to participate in large numbers. you guys not going to listen it seems until it hits rock bottom. so if that's what needs to happen so be it.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

#POB? I think this is a dying token, and I don't even want to comment much extra on it.

I can't believe you are saying this. What makes you think so? And if you really believe in it, don't you think we should work towards reviving it?

You bring up a good point about tag spam. I know I try to include all tags that I think are relevant. For instance, if I write about a financial topic, which is often, I add leo to my tags. Because pob and vyb don't have a topic that matches with them...and they're simply communities joined at the hip, I nearly always add them. Other than that, I will occasionally throw in another coin's tag if I think it fits...like, was I creative? Then creativecoin... Did I talk about gaming along with finances? Then I can add some gaming tags. I don't see it as spam if the content matches the tags in a reasonable way. But when you tag like the ones you show in the picture above, I am absolutely right there with you. I've even called people out on their tags before. Tags should stick with the content of the post. If you have a generic tag like vyb and pob, you really can't complain if it's on anything that "proves you have a brain" or "verifies you have a brain" which is everything but a robotic post...

Ignore is the way to go. It sounds like you have a good plan. #vyb is an experiment. I am hopeful.

As to #pob dying. I suspect a lot of it is due to it being SO valuable as a token for awhile that people started posting everything under the sun to POB. This changed it quite a bit. People that were getting the token then sold it mostly.

It's hard to say for certain.

I still feel like POB (and of course VYB) have a great future.

Tags are something that I have been trying to learn more about. But sadly I don't get much information about the proper use of the coin tags. When is it appropriate to use the POB and VYB tags? One person said it was fine to use any time. And the PIMP Token creator said the same for his. It's all pretty confusing. I always put topic tags as a higher priority than coin tags if there isn't room for both.

Many users make this mistake. Some make this mistake without knowing it's spamming. My personal opinion is that it might be better to warn them before punishing them. There are very few users who have just joined Hive and will not make this mistake.

My personal view has always been to win over people rather than ostracize them. I think it might be better to warn and educate them in the first place. Of course, only those who do not ignore the warnings understand the punishment.

I have a very good idea about this, and I'm working on it. I am planning to develop such an application on Hive. I'm in the planning phase right now, I haven't started writing code yet.

Best regards

Well, what I can say is that I spent my entire Hive journey understanding that if there are 10 space tags, we can use 10 space tags. And what counts here is common sense, really. I learned early that I shouldn't use Leo for "non-Leo" topics and I do the same with other tribes and communities (like Stem for example, which I only use when I'm going to post more academic and complex topics), but I can't see how the VYB and POB would not be in ALL of my posts. So I suppose your hints are not for people like me who are frequently using these tags and experiencing the day to day of the community, but for really freeloaders, who never show their faces but always use the tags.

Understood milking can apparently make others mad and it possible has become a problem I mean you know people like to get a few dollars for some beer and cigarettes from their hive milking. Maybe a couple crypto covered McDonald's.. lol I like to be funny if you downvote me whatever I'm risky hahaha. I'll say this about Paul before there's a look on him with the community though. I have talked to him before and yes I know that's his hustle I've even told him he should try more efforts but the guy is a good guy man he's a dad and he really wouldn't hurt nobody so atleast I could come up here to you and say yes he did a hustle you know and it's getting negative results but it wouldn't be cool for me to not let you guys see another side of him. Peace

hahahaha milkers

All my voting is manual, and as far as i know im not upvoting any token milkers.

Genuine question, im open minded on this, do you really think pob is a dying token?

Hello
I can't contact you on discord anymore. If it is intentionsl, it's ok. If not, maybe you can have a look at settings, send me friend request. Have a nice day.

This whole setup, regardless of tribe or mainnet, is a fucking circle jerk that produces garbage content and only serves to enrich those forming voting cartels.

Shit is fundamentally fucked. Always was.

Please what is the website name of vyb token.
And what is the topic type that should be posted, am asking so i wont fall into your ban list.